Friday, 27 May 2011

Over-regulation is the Biggest Barrier to Renewable take-up

We all know the environmental arguments in favour of installing renewable technologies, and I won’t repeat them here.

What is less widely understood is the business dynamics that will underpin the enormous change of scale required for renewable technologies to make a measurable impact on the energy used in our homes.

The Renewable Heat Incentive, (RHI) and other grants designed to stimulate take up of renewable technologies (RTs) all have the same caveat – to qualify, the installation must be undertaken by an MCS accredited installer.

At first sight, that sounds a reasonable requirement. After all, we don’t want a load of cowboys running round bringing the industry into disrepute, do we?

A little more digging, however, puts the matter in a new light. MCS accreditation has three elements. Firstly, there are checks on technical competence. So far, so good. Then there is the enforced membership of a group insurance scheme. Finally, and this is the problem bit, there is the imposition of a mandatory business process quality management scheme (QMS), similar in nature to ISO 9000.

The total cost of MCS accreditation varies, but estimates range from £2,500 to upwards of £5000 once all charges and working hours lost are factored in.

Why is that a problem? The natural constituency from which a large base of RT installers should be recruited is the existing group of plumbing, heating and building contractors. The vast majority of these firms are small businesses – from “one man bands” to small employers with two or three staff. Usually the business owner (or often his wife) does the paperwork in the evenings or at weekends.

These businesses are put off becoming accredited, both by the total costs and by the weight of paperwork required. The burden is simply too much to bear for a small company which is likely undertake only a handful of installations per year. To make matters worse, there is a danger that they won’t simply sit silently on the sidelines – they are likely to actively discourage their householder customers from including RTs in their refurbishments and extensions, because they know that they will not be able to carry out a project which requires MCS accreditation.

So how can we correct this? The simple answer is to exempt smaller businesses (with less than 5 employees) from the QMS element, so that they can focus on technical competence and safety. That’s the minimum guarantee that regulation ought to offer to the public. This will reduce both the cost and the administrative overhead for smaller installers, thereby encouraging them to register. Once that is dealt with, it is a matter for consumers to choose between the larger company, which may provide peace of mind (at a price!) or a smaller, local tradesman.

Government already recognises that regulatory requirements should be less burdensome for small businesses. A number of exemptions are already in force in respect of employment and health and safety regulations, so it should be a simple matter to extend the same exemptions to the QMS elements of MCS registration.

We currently have about 120,000 registered gas engineers. We only have 2,274* MCS accredited installers (covering all renewal technologies).

With these numbers, we simply cannot achieve the scale of RT installations that we need, and instead of creating an incentive for installers to train up and register, we have created the perverse situation which encourages them to discourage householders from considering the investment in green technologies.

This government talks a lot about the green agenda, encouraging small business, and deregulation. Slimming down MCS to a competence/safety based system for small business will tick all those boxes, with zero downside risk.

*statistic taken from www.microgenerationcertification.org, 5th May 2011

UPDATE - 14th July 2011

Following consultation with a wide range of stakeholders, some concerns have been expressed that exempting smaller companies from the QMS elements of MCS could weaken consumer protection, and risk bringing the industry into disrepute. Whilst these concerns are understandable, we think that they are misplaced.

It is important to remember that consumer protection is properly covered by membership of the REAL Assurance Scheme, not by QMS. The REAL requirements are much more clearly written than QMS, and can be easily understood by consumer and installer alike. They cover mis-selling, the provision of technical information, allow for protection of vulnerable consumers and describe general good practice. Critically, they also provide a mechanism for conciliation, rectification and dispute resolution.

QMS tells people how to run their business. BPEC, C&G and other related qualifications teach people how to install systems correctly. REAL sets standards for how customers should be treated. The latter two are far more important than the former, and no-one is arguing that they should be scrapped.

We have not been able to find any critical area in the QMS element which would not be adequately covered for businesses of less than 5 employees either in the REAL Consumer Code, or in the general requirements, or in the technology-specific MIS series of documents. Should other stakeholders identify such a critical omission then it may be necessary to make a minor addition to one of the latter documents.


33 comments:

  1. Hi Mick

    You raise some interesting points.

    We are MCS accredited and you are correct in your assertions that it is a pretty onerous task to get there. But it also takes a great deal of time to stay accredited and the attention to detail and the associated workload of keeping the QMS compliant should not be underestimated.

    Whether or not we should make it easier and less costly is another debate. And it goes hand in hand with the fact that having introduced some very generous FIT's the government seems determined to keep it as much under the general public's radar as much as possible.

    It is very rare for us to go into someone's home or business and for them to have a true understanding of the scope of the feed in tariff, the export tariff and their potential energy bill savings.

    An excellent post though thanks

    Kind Regards

    Mike Smith

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  2. Mick,

    I 100% agree with your comments, our industry is fleeced at every oportunity, MCS is too expensive and burdensome for the sole trader and small business, it needs to be streamlined, this does not mean that standards need to be dropped, only high quality installers should work in this field, but I have come across lots of MCS approved installer installations that are poor to say the least, MCS same as Gas Safe Register does not gurantee a good installer or installation.
    You have 100% of my support Mick for your campaign and if I can assist in any way I will be more than happy to help

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  3. Mick,

    I am afraid i can't agree with this very poor logic. We are an MCS Installer and work with other MCS Installers for the techs we don't currently offer. Our MCS cost about £640 was a straightforward process. Since we got MCS we have become far more organised and have won alot more work.

    The MCS Scheme is currently of a very high quality with record numbers of installers being approved each month, what would be the point in watering this scheme down? this would just flood the industry with small cowboys who aren't prepared to work at the standards the industry requires when plenty of others are.

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  4. It is irresponsible to try and ruin a high quality scheme just to increase your sales of renewables. The better way you could increase your sales and help your smaller installers would be to help them through MCS and support them in entering the industry rather than trying to change a scheme so they can get in without improving their businesses.

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  5. Hi Mark, and thanks for contributing to the blog.

    Congratulations on getting your MCS – I would love to know how you managed to get accredited for £640 – I can’t find a route that includes ALL the costs, (including training, assessment, registration, BPEC, REAL insurance etc) for anything like that figure. If you could email me the details, that would be great.
    Mick dot williams @ williams dot uk dot com.

    You may be missing the point of my campaign. I have no problem with the technical competence or safety elements of the scheme requirements. I absolutely agree that these are critical for protecting the public, and for safeguarding the industry image.

    My issue is with the bureaucracy part – the QMS. Both I and a colleague have attended seminars which purport to make this “easy” – one run by CORGI and the other by Baxi. Whilst the guys running the courses have done their best, the simple fact remains that these schemes are completely disproportionate for small installers, and would add little or nothing (except overhead) to their businesses.

    We already exempt small businesses from lots of the admin overheads that apply to larger firms. Employment law and H&S record keeping are two very good examples, because it is widely recognised that imposing the same admin load on smaller business is a barrier to entrepreneurship and enterprise.

    All I am asking is that the same exemption be granted on the admin side of MCS. So long as the technical elements are retained for all (as they are in GasSafe for example) then I don’t see why it should drive down standards.

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  6. Hi Gary.

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

    Of course I want to sell more renewables – don’t we all? Isn’t that the point of all these schemes? :-)

    If we look at the parallel of the gas safety business (can be far riskier, incidentally, than renewables) then we see a good template for how it should be.

    If customers value the peace of mind that they get from dealing with a large firm, then they have that option. Some people will always use British Gas to do their work, almost regardless of the price. But other customers prefer to use smaller, local firms – perhaps ones that have worked for them before, or come on a personal recommendation.

    The important thing is that the work is technically sound, and safe. After that it should be for the consumer to decide whether they prefer the larger firm with all the paperwork policy boxes ticked, or their local, reliable, trustworthy one man band, who is an engineer, not an administrator.

    You might also see my remarks above to Mark about how we already recognise the different nature of small firms in H&S record keeping and Employment law.

    Best regards

    Mick

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  7. Hi Mick

    Really appreciate the efforts your making for small business and one man bands, I my self am a gas safe registered engineer and have been working with heatpumps for the last 4 years I am fortunate that the technical skills and qualifications allow me to sub contract on a casual basis to a heat pump manufacturer Having witnessed an MCS inspector audit the company I do casual work for I would let them fit a hose pipe together, this guy was purely an auditer and spent less than 1 minute inspecting a heatpump that should never have passed inspection he was also pulled up on other inspections he had passed. I fully back what you are doing and I defy anyone to say that the MCS is good for the industry, Its alright for big companies with big money and loads of staff. I my self do MCS sign offs and site inspections checking MCS accredited installers, but I my self am not and refuse to be MCS accredited, as a one man band due to cost and time taken to do the QMS it is not worth my while, and having seen the abortions left by MCS accredited companies I dont know how they became MCS accreditation, sorry yes I do they have loads of money and are good with paperwork.
    Regards Unguided1

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  8. I would very much like to know about an MCS accreditation for £640. Please contact me at green energy assessors at gmail dot com.

    many thanks
    Chris

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  9. I get the feeling that the MCS "fraternity" who have the accreditation do not want the MCS to be simplified as it opens the market up for fair trade. Im in agreement with your campaign as I personally feel that this "accreditation" will be long dead in the water once the funding has dried up and the market has woken up to new technologies. Would MCS accredited companies still be willing to part with hundreds of pounds each year as it improves their business processes? I think not. Maybe the focus should be upon the technical aspects of the technologies and not the "paper trail" of the QMS.

    Best Regards

    Connor

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  10. Hi Mick

    I'm totally behind you, I have 30+ years experience in the Plumbing and Heating trade and I think all the QMS for small business's is totally ridiculous.

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  11. Lets hope we do some good and get things changed for the better.
    Ian from Ecowarm

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  12. it is a joke really and I am totally against it. I am a new plumbing & heating business who wants to get into renewable energies but all the paperwork involved is putting me off as I get enough paperwork as it is. I agree that it should be different for small firms, like it is with H&S where if you have less than 5 employees you don't need to have Risk Assessments and the likes of that. For the UK to be able to achieve its target in carbon emission reduction, they will have to support the local small companies.


    Regards
    Gerry

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  13. Thank you for this blog as it highlights some of the difficulties a one-man-band faces and thank you for indicating some of the costs which, to a small business, are not inconsiderable.

    My gripes are not only about the money but the red tape that one needs to plough through and your post indicates some of the spaghetti and how trapped you are.

    It's a big shame because most of us plumbers are out to (and not necessarily in order):

    a) earn a reasonable living
    b) help people become more environmentally friendly
    c) help people keep their fuel costs down
    d) install a good system with no dangerous short cuts
    e) do the job for a reasonable price where we feel happy with the money we've made and the customer feels happy with the value they've received.

    Much of the MCS lark seems to be based around keeping administrators in an office in employment rather than encouraging the country to use more environmentally friendly heating.

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  14. Totally agree with what you are seeking to achieve here. The whole idea of MCS in its current form is ridiculous. If it was to justify what had been installed had been selected correctly, explained in full to the customer, good working instructions left with the customer and a first rate installation meeting all standards and regulations then yes I would support it fully and be at the head of the queue to be involved. But unfortunately its not, its about imposing time consuming nonsensical systems onto companies to achieve what? Lining more companies pockets to police companies systems! Maybe bigger companies will look at this and think no problem, they possibly already have some sort of quality assurance system,just like the company I worked for when I served my time.
    As a sole trader I cannot justify the time, the expense and passing on these ridiculous costs to my prospective customers. I already work long hours doing my job and spend many a night working towards midnight on paperwork.
    Anything that can be done to help the 'little man' is welcome. It's hard enough as it is without being pushed out of the future of our industry. Customers are being advised incorrectly at the moment because of MCS to the detriment of the industry.

    SimonG

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  15. Mick, yet again you are exactly right in your opinions. We are all being encouraged to pursue the renewables path and threatened that gas will become more difficult to install in quite a short timespan. When you look into the logistics of MCS however, it has been set up as a money making admin excercise which has little or no benefit for the end user. Other industries are regulated/ controlled for the safety of the end user, such as gas safe, without the need to record every communication with every customer etc etc etc. This process has obviously been dreamed up by a think tank with the best of intentions but very little experience of running a small business. As you can see I am typing this at 11pm on a friday evening after working through a number of quotations, invocies etc. That is the reality of running a small business. I wish oyu all the luck in the world - for all our sakes.

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  16. Hi Mick,

    I'm trying to get the support of all the Plumbers and Heating Engineers I meet in the merchants to post on this blog. We all need to try to do this. Members of CIPHE and the like should try to get support of the fellow members in their area.
    As Winston Churchill said We have before us an ordeal of the most grievous kind. We have before us many, many long months of struggle and of suffering. You ask, what is our policy? I will say: It is to wage war, by sea, land, and air, with all our might and with all the strength that God can give us; to wage war against a monstrous tyranny never surpassed in the dark, lamentable catalogue of human crime. That is our policy. You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: It is victory, victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be.
    Not quite the same as being invaded by the Nazi Germany but you get the idea.
    One man bands and small bussines's do not need all this extra paper work, we have enough as it is. Lets do something about it. Regards, Ian

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  17. Hi Mick.
    We at the cotswold efficient energy centre entered the mcs scheme as follow up clearskies which ended in 2006.
    We then had to produce a quality management file(qmf)this took in excess of 200hrs to complete.
    We are a company of 23 people and accredited mcs for 4 technologies at a cost of £3,200 pa if you had a staff of 3 people it would cost the same!.
    I have recently completed a road show tour for installer connect through out the uk presenting to installers, how we at ceec took the route into the renewable market after the talk we had a question & answer session-main questions were.
    Why is made so difficult for sme,s to enter the ncs scheme.
    Why is so expensive.
    How do we tap into the market.
    Large companies have the resources to carry out the onerous task of producing the qmf, sme's are hands on installers who allready hold the necessary skills the extra training is second nature they do it all the time i.e gas safe-oftec-G3 however they are not clerically trained to produce qmf's which are more in line with larger companies.
    The present scheme is not fit for purpose its unfair and changes need to be made and soon!.
    We shall need the quality sme's as momentum will grow with the impending RHI tariffs.
    Ihave written to my MP with a copy of Mick's document asking him to lobby this important issue.
    The governments aspirations for carbon reduction in 2016-2020-2030 without the small firms it will all go up in smoke.
    Andy Buchan

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  18. Hi Mick.
    I actually have a few more comments to make re earlier blog.
    When presenting our seminars many installers asked why are you giving out all this info surely by keeping it to your self you limit the competition! NO! its in our intresrt to have as many good installers out there as poss as we need good testimonials to prove renewables are the future.
    We do not want poor installs which give renewables a bad name.
    At our show room we have visitors who say were not intrested in bla!!bla!!bla!! our friend had one fitted 6 mths latter is was taken out thats not good for any one.
    Part of MCS is you must join R.E.A.L.the scheme which is a body to protect the consumer by signing up you agree to abide by there policies i.e no miss selling if you take deposits you have these in a seperate account,the solar industry is fraught with the old double glazing pitch which we have all seen on various tv shows.
    Why in hell is R.E.A.L.not good enough on its own for SME's to join the MCS scheme? annual fee aprox 120 pound per year now that is acceptable!.
    In the worst case scenario a watered down 3 or 4 page document for SME's to accept compliance of MCS & REAL now i think that's more than reasonable!.
    I already know of some installers operating out side of the scheme due to the unreasonable requirements of MCS we dont want to turn it into!thousands!.
    Keep up the good work Mick.
    Regards Andy Buchan.

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  19. The main point that most people seem to forget is that we are already trained to install heating systems the only difference is the heat source so apart from a bit trainning required to understand a new heat source why is there a need for a whole new seperate industry with extrenuos physical costs who are the incompitant morons who have splintered our industry so that the focus is on the heat source and not on the whole system, we already have Oftec Gas Safe and Heatas, now we have MCS the physical cost for the one man band or small business is prohibitive, the insane QMS appears to be completely irrelevant to the installations being carried out. I have witnessed shocking installs by MCS accredited businesses to the point that I have condemned the work and had to put it right for the customer.

    I would like to add that I am not MCS accredited and I refuse to MCS accredited, I do inspect installations and I do sign them off on the MCS register, So if I am capable of doing this you can guarantee the cowboys will also find the loopholes, but in my eyes many of the cowboys are already MCS accredited and its the double glazing companies who already have the office skills and money to back them. and use sub contractors to do the installations paying them next to nothing and passing extortionate costs on to the customer, and before anyone denies this I used to do cylinder changes on a solar thermal contract for a double glazing company

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  20. I'm tired of suits making money off the back of other people's hard work.

    There is no magic to renewable energy, no reason to spin it into another money making sub-trade for bureaucrats.
    As anon above me rightly pointed out it's plumbing which deals with a different heat source.

    Continuing to fracture and over regulate the trade is doing nothing but forcing the price up for customers which is contrary to the governments efforts of increasing the use of renewable energies.
    Bigger firms will absorb the costs out of their already healthy profit margins while the sole trader who is more able to provide value for money will be buried under an avalache of paperwork.

    Someone please take note of this blog and read the posts from tradesmen who care enough about their trade and their customers to take time to leave a comment here.

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  21. David Cameron is to back entrepreneurs and small business to drive economic growth:
    http://www.egovmonitor.com/node/41072
    He attacks the "enemies of enterprise".
    How can the Prime Minister maintain this position when his Government is suffocating small business with bureaucracy? Jonathan Harris, That Extra Mile Heating and Plumbing, London

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  22. Mick, MCS Installers are handing out taxpayers money and as such need to have minimum levels of business processes involved, otherwise any installer could tell any customer bogus statements about what they will and wont get from the system with no paper trail to prove otherwise. The quality processes MCS stipulates are what make the renewable industry a high quality one where customers can rest easy knowing they are protected and their installer has minimum standards in place and isn’t going to make wild claims regardless of how technically competent he is. Making MCS a free for all for small installers would destroy the industry over night, flood it with smaller companies who possibly couln’t cope (ie. didnt have a structure for growth in place which MCS creates), possibly were out to make a fast buck and weren’t bothered about customer protection or best practice.

    Renewables is not the same as other industries and requires installers to be operating minimum standards which allow them to grow in a structured fashion and maintain consumer confidence otherwise the industry is dead before it is out of the gate with bad press.

    Also it is worth pointing out the exaggerated costs that are being banded around, MCS costs around £600 to be inspected for and £200 to join REAL, not entirely sure where these massive figures are coming from as everyone in the industry knows its just people trying to get on the scheme as cheaply as possible with little effort by making wild claims about the costs of MCS (which further clarifies my point that they would go on to make wild claims about savings and payback from renewable systems .

    My MCS cost about £650 for the inspection and £190 for REAL, best decision i ever made, my company is now more organised and better performing and i haven’t looked back since.

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  23. Hi again Mark.

    As I said in reply to your previous comment, I would love to know how you managed to get accredited for £640, although I note that you are including some of the other costs this time!

    I can’t find a route that includes ALL the costs, (including training, assessment, registration, BPEC, REAL insurance etc) for anything like that figure. If you could email me the details, that would be great.
    Mick dot williams @ williams dot uk dot com.

    MCS accredited installers are not handing out taxpayers money – they are installing accredited renewable products which will enable householders to claim a grant (RHPP) now and an incentive payment (RHI) from October next year.

    I have heard nobody suggesting that standards of competence or safety should be relaxed, only that the imposition of an OTT quality management system (QMS) is a barrier to small installers becoming involved in the installation of renewables.

    Many of the small installers that you suggest could destroy the industry overnight and “possibly were out to make a fast buck and weren’t bothered about customer protection or best practice” have been in the heating industry for many years. They have kept up with the new technology introduced to the industry through their own continuing professional development (CPD) with the help of the manufacturers bringing the new technology to market.

    They have managed the transition from simple cast iron floor standing boilers to lightweight wall hung boilers, from the appalling early combis to the new all singing all dancing super efficient condensing combis. They have coped with the emergence of unvented cylinders after years of installing ordinary, unlagged cheap vented copper cylinders. Surprise, surprise they managed all of this without a Quality Management System (QMS) – well, apart from the back of the fag packet that many of them successfully ran their businesses from years ago! Renewables are just another heat source to add to the mix – another way of heating water!!

    Today’s small plumbing & heating businesses are subject to so much regulation, legislation and bureaucracy that they wouldn’t dare be incompetent – and the vast majority are very competent indeed.

    To suggest otherwise would be like saying that your local double glazing firm was qualified to fit you a brand new heat pump as long as the firm is MCS accredited – oh, hang on ………

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  24. Just like to say a big thankyou to Mick for compaining for us guys who run smaller businesses. I've worked on systems that big companies have refused to work on because there guys haven't been able to understand them. And I personally loathe paperwork. But I could pipe up an air source unit or solar panels with my eyes closed. Not wanting to Jump through more hoops and do more paperwork does not make me incapable of fitting renewables. I went on a mitsubishi training course and knew more than the guy training me and so did most of the guys on the course.
    Rant over thanks again to Mick for realising that small companies are just as important as large ones.

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  25. I would like to know in which technology Mark is MCS accredited in, Also I would like to know why he considers the need for all this extra paperwork is really important, also having read his two posts I feel exceedingly insulted that in his eyes as one man band, I must be a cowboy.
    If the MCS was truly about protecting the customer there would be damned sight more focus on installers training, the systems that this equipment is installed onto, and more people to physicaly inspect the installtions to ensure that the customer is actually getting something that is fit for purpose, rather than some smooth talking big company sales rep with a shiney brand new van who is looking to get in and get out fast making as much money as possible.
    The main difference between the one man band and the big companies with the shyster sales reps and a big advertising budget is the one man band is only as good as his last job, this means he usually spends a long time making a good reputation.
    unguided1

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  26. Whilst carrying out a pump change for a customer, she asked if I was Government Qualified to have a look at here under floor heating>

    The UFH circuits was attached to her radiator circuit and it had not worked satisfactorily since fitted.

    I said I would see what I could do.

    With some adjustments I managed to improve the UFH balance without messing up the radiator circuit.

    “So are you Government qualified?” She asked.

    “No”, was my reply, “in the view of the Government fixing it doesn’t require quality control, its only installation that needs the red tape”

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  27. Good luck Mick! Quite frankly I have had a look at some of this bureaucratic red tape and think a lot of it is b*llshit. I am a sole trader, tell me how I am supposed to have quartely meetings with myself, and what difference it makes that I log every tool that I might use to how good a job I can do?

    If the government want to reduce emissions they need to help the small businesses get through this administrative side.

    J Williams Plumbing & Heating

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  28. I have today added an update to my original post which reads as follows:

    UPDATE - 14th July 2011

    Following consultation with a wide range of stakeholders, some concerns have been expressed that exempting smaller companies from the QMS elements of MCS could weaken consumer protection, and risk bringing the industry into disrepute. Whilst these concerns are understandable, we think that they are misplaced.

    It is important to remember that consumer protection is properly covered by membership of the REAL Assurance Scheme, not by QMS. The REAL requirements are much more clearly written than QMS, and can be easily understood by consumer and installer alike. They cover mis-selling, the provision of technical information, allow for protection of vulnerable consumers and describe general good practice. Critically, they also provide a mechanism for conciliation, rectification and dispute resolution.

    QMS tells people how to run their business. BPEC, C&G and other related qualifications teach people how to install systems correctly. REAL sets standards for how customers should be treated. The latter two are far more important than the former, and no-one is arguing that they should be scrapped.

    We have not been able to find any critical area in the QMS element which would not be adequately covered for businesses of less than 5 employees either in the REAL Consumer Code, or in the general requirements, or in the technology-specific MIS series of documents. Should other stakeholders identify such a critical omission then it may be necessary to make a minor addition to one of the latter documents.

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  29. The whole green / MCS industry is in my opinion just ripping off both the UK taxpayer as well as the tradesman. We are all paying for this via our fuel bills / tax all people are getting is in effect a tax rebate. I have seen some dreadful and sometimes dangerous solar installations. I have recently seen one that took all the bedroom ceilings down. As far as the MCS/QMS paperwork goes, they can keep it. I have no intention of being swamped or having another extension done to my house just so I can store more paperwork. It's about time this Government starting backing UK businesses instead of killing it. I know of at least 4 plumbing companies that have folded within the last 2 months..

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  30. Hi Mick

    I've just heard about your campaign via a mailing from HVP magazine which includes a link to this blog. I'm guessing a good few more people will find you this way, and like me will want to support your campaign. Maybe you could link from here to a petition that we could all sign?

    Unfortunately I notice that the government has closed the http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/ facility before the replacement one (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Diol1/DoItOnline/DG_066327) is ready to open. It's just like the way they run the funding for renewables!! Maybe this site could be an alternative host: http://www.petitiononline.co.uk/

    As a qualified plumber who carried out many solar thermal installations years ago in Germany and who also holds the "BPEC Solar DHWH" qualification (a week long course at http://www.cat.org.uk/) I am technically capable and very willing to install solar thermal. I would also like to get further training in heat pumps and wood pellet boilers. I'm holding back from doing any of this due to one thing: the MCS. However I do get a few jobs sorting out problems with solar thermal systems that have been installed by large companies that have since ceased trading!

    I get very annoyed by those (like Mark) who suggest that being a sole trader / self employed equates to being a cowboy. Cowboys can work alone or in gangs, just the same as reputable installers. However it's worth remembering that if a limited company gets into trouble it can declare bankruptcy and the directors walk away (often to re-open under another name). If a sole trader gets into trouble then he/she is personally liable.

    Thanks Mick for speaking up for those of us who want to be judged on our technical competence and honesty, not our ability to shuffle paper & waste money.

    P.S. That's a great video on your website explaining your company ethos. Pity you're not in the north-west, I think you'd get my custom if you were.

    Adrian Porter

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  31. As of today in my optinion the whole MCS question is now in complete disaray. The fact is that a leading big name company who have started to do renewables has been fined 2.5 million pounds for failling to deal with customer complaints. So if a huge company like British Gas are unable to comply in their own trade how will they cope in the renewables market. As far as I am concerned this completly proves that the MCS is a complete joke as is anything backed by the buerocrats in government and something needs to be done now
    Unguided1

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  32. Mick it appears that the Green Deal will require yet another accreditation for installers, I fail to see why this would be needed, if an installer already has MCS and Gas Safe, why would they need to be accredited again, it matters not how the scheme is run, a boiler is a boiler and a solar panel is a solar panel, there will be no difference in the installation procedure, so why the need for another accreditation, in my opinion it is all about money, it is just another excuse to milk the installer of more of his hard earned cash, I would like o hear from anyone who could give a good explanation as to why installers would need to go through yet more accreditation for Green Deal, but I bet no one can

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  33. Mick,

    It appears that installers will have to undergo yet another accreditation for Green Deal at i'm sure more cost, I fail to see the need for this, if an installer has MCS & Gas Safe, why would they need yet more accreditation, it does not matter how the scheme is run, from an installation point of view a boiler is a boiler and a solar panel is a solar panel, nothing will change in the installation procedure, and if they are suggesting it will is this not a job for Building Regulations, in my opinion it is all about money, just another way to milk the installers for more cash, I would like to see someone from DECC give a good and valid reason why installers should undergo yet more accreditation, when they already have plenty, I bet they can't

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